The Dating Games
Quick note: I’m over on iVillage, talking with the famous and amazing Virginia about cake. Virginia, I will love you forever. I promise.
My friend texted me. “Just boy stuff again, if u want to talk.”
When do I not want to talk about boy stuff?
She met a cute guy. He listened to her talking about yoga with real interest. They liked a lot of the same random indie music. He invited her back to his place, where she hung out with him and his roommates for a while and then left. He has not texted her since. Even though she texted him.
I have three friends with boyfriends who don’t pay for things enough. As in, “What if we’re going to see a movie? Can’t he just pay once in a while, instead of always expecting me to split everything? Why doesn’t he ever want to take me out?”
Dating is kind of a mess.
(and that’s not even counting all the clothes that go along with it.)
When I interviewed Kay Hymowitz, author of Manning Up (read my interview with her here. I mean, if you feel like it), last week, she told me that dating is so confusing for everyone now not because there aren’t any rules, really, but because everyone has a different set of rules that they’re following. And her reason for why people all have different rules is that people are on different career and biological schedules.
It used to be that you were expected to find a partner in your early twenties, get married, and buy a house. After which you’d immediately get started on producing viable offspring. During that time, especially if you were a man, you’d get and keep a job. Marriage, job, house, kids. The four staples of adulthood (The New York Times says there are “five milestones.” Whatever. We can agree to disagree. No, I’m kidding, They’re probably right.)
Not anymore.
Twenty-something women are kicking butt in the workplace. We seem to care a lot about our careers. But we remember very clearly that a man is supposed to get us flowers for Valentine’s Day and call or text us after the first date to say he had a good time and would like to see us again.
“I don’t care if he pays or not,” another friend told me yesterday. “But if he pays then I know it’s a date. It’s a signal.”
(maybe if people dressed up more for dates, it’d be more obvious. This was pretty much the only time we did. I’m really proud of us, though. Which is why I found an excuse to include this picture. Also, I am wearing the highest heels ever. Also, this parenthetical is way too long.)
That’s the thing. We don’t even know when it counts as a date anymore. We definitely don’t know when it stops being dating and starts being a relationship. Because even that seems unclear for a lot of people. Did anyone read the sort of famous Modern Love (Dan Smith, stop not publishing my submissions and do the thing that we all know to be right) piece by the college student about dating?
A guy once invited me to a ball. Yeah, for real. I, too, hadn’t realized that they hadn’t died out after, um, Cinderella’s time. Apparently people who wear uniforms are still into them.
Obviously, I went. I got this cobalt sleeveless satin (or whatever fake satin is called) mermaid gown. He picked me up at my parents’ house. He drove me to a restaurant first, making witty conversation the whole way. And then he expected me to pay for my meal. I paid. I was thinking, “Wait…I thought this was a date. Aren’t we going to a ball, like, as soon as we get out of here? How could this not be a date? Is he not interested in me? Am I going as his friend?”
I was completely thrown off. (So “no” to the idea that dressing up helps.)
It turned out that it was a date. I know–shocking.
Kay Hymowitz told me that men and women find each other when their sets of expectations for dating and relationships match. And it’s not like that never happens. Maybe it helps for them to be really, really clear, too.
Like, Bear, for instance. On our fourth date, he said, “So, does this count as dating now?” And then he said, “I want to be your boyfriend.”
I appreciated that a lot. I once went out with a guy for a couple months and when he told me he was moving out of the country and I said, “Oh my god!” he said, “Don’t go and get all clingy on me. It’s not like we’re dating or anything.”
But here’s something really embarrassing. And I’m going to share it with you here, because this is the internet, where all secrets are safe.
So Bear took me to Utah for our fourth date, for a pastrami burger, as is his people’s custom. I’m kidding, it’s not really his people’s custom. It couldn’t possibly be. Pastrami burgers have only been around for a very short time. So, he took me there, and rented a car and a hotel room (a suite, so that I wouldn’t be obligated to get in bed with him if I didn’t feel like it), and at the end of the trip, we stopped at this little junky seafood place on our way to the airport. I said, “Let me get this,” and he said, “OK.” And EVEN AFTER ALL THAT my brain went, “WHAT?! He’s letting me pay on the fourth date?! For both of us? He’s not even offering to split it?”
Yes. I’m mortified. I’m a terrible person. But at least I recognize it. I may still have a shot at heaven if I work hard and fast.
It was as though my brain skipped over the rest of the trip, and the ridiculous fact that I was in Utah at the moment, suddenly, after having been securely in Manhattan very shortly before. Utah didn’t fit into my dating expectations. But the guy paying (or, more likely, splitting) on the fourth date did. And I felt that way, even after my rational faculties kicked back in. Even though I don’t think guys should have to pay for things just because they’re guys.
Someone should also write a book about online dating. Practically everyone I know is dating online. There are people whose job it is to reword your profile so that you sound like you might be able to think in complete sentences (is that even true for me?). In some ways, online dating simplifies things. You never have to see the person again. If you just want casual sex, you can write “looking for casual sex” or “I only like men who think giraffes are the best animal” and it doesn’t have to be an unpleasant surprise. You can weed through unlikely sorts before you even meet them. In other ways, it’s more complicated. People start becoming commodities. They all start looking the same.
I have no idea how to conclude this post. I’m sitting here like, “So…dating is complicated.” And, “But really, it’s a lot better in so many ways than it was in the past. I mean, at least there’s birth control!” And, “It’s cool that people can have different goals.” And, “Maybe we should split everyone up into two groups: people who would consider marrying someone sometime relatively soon if they met the right person, and people who are pretty sure they won’t get married anytime soon, no matter what.” Wait. Are those even the right two groups? What about “People who want to be in a relationship and people who don’t”? Maybe there should be more than two groups. Who said there could only be two groups?
OK. I’m done. I’m out. It’s too confusing.
(Bear thinks dressing up is ridiculous.)
* * *
Un-roast: Today I love the way I look in PJ pants and a tee-shirt with the name of a college on it. So classic.
P.S. Does anyone remember/know about that old dating book called “The Rules”? Once my friend’s therapist actually recommended it to her, and she actually got it, and I actually read it. The Rules, for anyone who has been fortunate enough to avoid them, are a set of instructions for securing a man’s affections by pretending to be someone you’re definitely, definitely not. Someone who always crosses her legs and sews buttons for fun and doesn’t kiss until the fifteenth date and never, ever calls him first. Y’know, your average imaginary woman from the late 50s. I just thought of that book. I’m pretty glad I never felt like I should be following any of those rules.
P.P.S. If you can’t get enough and absolutely need to read more of my writing today, then you can click here for the Huffpo version of my story about learning disabilities.
Kate on March 16th 2011 in Uncategorized
Sona responded on 16 Mar 2011 at 10:56 am #
The pieces of dating advice I probably give the most are the following (though in no way, I am an expert, these are just the methods that work for me):
If he doesn’t say it’s a date, and it turns out it is, this guy is not straight-forward and hence not worth your time. Yes, I’m harsh like that, but I’ve seen many friends divorce in short amounts of time, these instances speak volumes about how this person deals with conflict, etc. And a shy guy will tell you if it’s a date – just bashfully.
You can’t assume that a man likes you – no matter how much you get along when you talk. I am totally for a woman reaching out after meeting someone – but if a man likes you, they will tell you. And if he isn’t straight-forward, again, what type of relationship would that be like?
Most of these things are about timing. Make a happy life for yourself and realize that some of the men it doesn’t work out with just weren’t in the right place in their lives right now.
People really have to assess why and when they think a man should pay for something. Did my husband pay for things when he first met me? Yes, but I always offered to pay for brunch or something when we were hanging out. Never thought about it twice. Then he went to law school and I paid for most things. And you know what? If I had complained about that spending, it would speak volumes about my character. Now, money is better and today, we’re going to London…on him – when someone who loves you has money, they will be generous (within reason). If you want someone to make a commitment, then you also have to make a commitment. If you are really thinking about someone being a life partner, than eventually after the initial courtship, you need to have a mature talk about finances, and then you need to split spending accordingly. We can’t ask for our men to respect the fact that we will prioritize our careers, if we do not use the funds reaped from said careers.
Kate responded on 16 Mar 2011 at 11:01 am #
For real. I’ve always been big on splitting. And when I’ve been with a guy who I knew really didn’t have ANY money, I’ve paid, because I was making money. So whatever. But I also understand why women get upset when the guy doesn’t OFFER to pay. It’s the gesture that counts. Sometimes it’s not even about the money. You want to know that the person is interested in you, cares about you, and is willing to show you those things.
Emmi responded on 16 Mar 2011 at 11:09 am #
Such complexity! I definitely don’t miss dating. Sure, it was exciting and interesting, but I got so tired of the game-playing. I was always up-front and honest, and such clarity often befuddled prospective partners. A certain amount of deception and mystique is expected by most people in dating, and I was never interested in all that.
Men and women I’ve dated simply didn’t know how to deal with a woman who spoke her mind and knew what she wanted. SO SCARY. But it is, it’s not the norm and folks just didn’t know how to react to me – until I met the man that would become my Mister. To this day he constantly extols my honesty, and knows I will never mess with his head or test him the way so many people do to their partner. Never saw the point.
As for paying for a date, my default setting is expecting to split the check. If the other person offers to pay, I would graciously thank him/her and offer to get the next time. But I know I’m pretty nontraditional on that front. I wanted to be a sociologist for a hot minute in college (had an awesome professor) but then I realized that constantly studying convoluted human interactions would drive me insane. People love to make things complex, to keep things interesting. To a degree I can understand that, but it’s just not for me.
You and Bear are SO adorable.
Kate responded on 16 Mar 2011 at 11:13 am #
@Emmi
That reminds me. Sorry to everyone about how heteronormative this post turned out!
Emmi responded on 16 Mar 2011 at 11:36 am #
Meh, no big deal. It’s to be expected when the author is (or is assumed to be) hetero, you are speaking from personal experience. If you fancied the ladies I would expect the post to be along those lines. But trust me, same-sex dating can be even more complex than opposite-sex. There REALLY aren’t any “typical” rules to follow there – well, perhaps some very silly ones, but you get my drift. There’s so much variation.
threegoodrats responded on 16 Mar 2011 at 11:52 am #
I wonder why we expect sexual equality, yet still expect men to pay for dates? Never mind how confusing it is to us – imagine how confusing it is to them!
Jess responded on 16 Mar 2011 at 11:52 am #
I have it on good authority (ie: How I Met Your Mother) that the “check dance” is important to guys, in the masculinity way. They expect you to show enough interest in them through paying to reach for the check, but do eventually want to pay themselves, after the awkward little reachy dance. I think this is generally bull. I’m a big fan of splitting or, as is often simpler math, alternating who pays. This frequently works best later in a dating scenario.
On my first date with my gentleman, we did dinner and a show. He went to the counter to pay for dinner, I said “what do I owe you?” and he ignored it. It wasn’t terribly expensive, so I didn’t mind. But when we got to the bar, I definitely gave the doorman a 20 and said it was for both of us. My not-yet-gentleman thanked me but sounded very confused. This, to him, an adult male, meant it might not be a date. This, to me, meant I might be very nice, courteous, and showing my interest back. If he can do it, why can’t I? I’m sure this signal has been similarly misread numerous times, and has chased lesser men away.
These days, his regular excuse is “You’re a poor grad student/unemployed and I have a job!” which is true, and a fine reason to take your person of any gender out on the town. (When I mention my parents’ support, he says “If I wanted your mom do buy me dinner, I’d be dating her”. This causes giggles.) I just don’t like any form of expectations due and gender politics. There’s no right or wrong thing, and all sorts of finance situations. But I have to admit that when he paid for those meat pies that first night, that was how I knew it was a date.
Kate responded on 16 Mar 2011 at 11:58 am #
@Threegoodrats
Yup. Please please check out the book “Manning Up.” Hymowitz has a lot to say about this. Or read her piece in the Daily Beast
Angie responded on 16 Mar 2011 at 11:59 am #
LOVE this post.
I was just thinking the other day about how odd it is that even when I was in the dating game, I loathed it. Did anything I could to avoid it (and I’m telling you, that’s pretty hard to do for a girl like me in Utah). And now that I’m married and a mom, every once and a while, I find myself missing the chase. Missing those awkward moments that turn into hilarious bad date stories.
Weird, right?
jenny responded on 16 Mar 2011 at 12:00 pm #
I had a crush on a guy for four years in highschool. Finally, after being friends for years we kissed., confusion ensued, he disappeared. Years later we were commiserating on our failed relationships and he let it slip how it was fun to date me…what! I was dating him?? You mean all those months…::face palm:: my friends still find it hilarious that I was able to date AND dump a guy without ever knowing we were dating in the first place. I would have been thrilled to know that tidbit!
Angie responded on 16 Mar 2011 at 12:01 pm #
p.s. I love the way you write! You’re so funny! I am a loyal follower (more like stalker) of your blog. 🙂
Cheers.
Claire responded on 16 Mar 2011 at 12:30 pm #
Thanks for once again writing about a topic that was on my mind! It really is confusing “dating” these days because there are so many forms takes (or doesn’t take). How can we know for sure with so many shades of meaning? Do you think it would ever be wise of me to ask a guy to clarify if what we’re doing together is a date?
Gabriela responded on 16 Mar 2011 at 12:47 pm #
Honestly this made my day! Your writing is so delightfully funny hahaha I love it and obviously you’re right: dating is confusing. Here in Venezuela it’s a little bit different though.
Alii Silverwing responded on 16 Mar 2011 at 1:23 pm #
I kind of don’t get numbering dates. I don’t even remember what my boyos and my first date was. I mean, does that time we chatted for three hours on that bus ride count as a date? Or what about sitting next to each other at the basketball game and cheering for both teams? Did only that movie count? Maybe it is easier to keep count if you have to schedule time for it. If you claim time around the edges of life, it makes it hard.
My best friend used to have the confusing and scary idea in the back of her head that you HAD to have sex on the third date. I really don’t like the idea that each number of date has special rules on what should happen.
The boyo and I always squabble/d over who is/was going to pay for the meal, and I often insisted on splitting the bill or paying for it myself. I knew how much money he usually had floating around for entertainments and far be it from me to drain his bank account when I sure as hell could pay for myself. I didn’t need him to go broke just to make me feel… special at his expense? I know it’s just one way to look at the practice, but it’s how I’ve always seen it and been kind of annoyed by it. Now we just trade off paying and it salves both our instincts for fairness and providing for the other person.
In all honesty, I’ve had more ‘real’ dates of the going-out-for-coffee-and-getting-to-know-you sort since I’ve started trying to find people online to join my tabletop rpg games in real life. 🙂 It’s been WAY more intense since I have to evaluate not how well the person gets along with me and whether or not I wish to smooch them, but how well the person’s personality will fit with a small group of others wielding axes, hammers, and staves. It’s been a really novel experience for me to actually have formal meet-ups with prospective friends.
(Relatively)NewReader responded on 16 Mar 2011 at 1:52 pm #
The post about your Utah date is very high on my list of favorites @ Eat the Damn Cake…very romantic 🙂
Erinleigh responded on 16 Mar 2011 at 2:04 pm #
Well I am just as confused as you are Kate. I absolutely HATED dating…it was not for me…completely akward and awful and I went out with a couple guys who were just grabby and rude. UGH. Disgusting….
thank goodness I have a wonderful man in my life who was a good friend first…so we kind of fell into a relationship after we hung out a lot and realized we were both really into each other….
But even then, it’s still confusing. I was secretly hoping he really liked me and not sure when he suddenly asked me “Are you planning on us being together for a while?”…I didn’t even realize we were officially together but I was immediately ecstatic…OF COURSE I wanted to be together for a while…and we still are…2 years later! 🙂
Layla responded on 16 Mar 2011 at 2:08 pm #
I think it’s complicated (hah!).
I would never expect a man to pay for everything on a date because he’s a man. Because I don’t agree with sexism, and sexism works both ways. Especially when I first start seeing someone, I would either expect to pay half or take turns paying. If you’re in a relationship and one person has way more disposable income, then they’d probably pay more often. But the only times I’d expect someone who I was going out with to pay is if they were taking me out to celebrate my birthday/promotion etc, and I’d expect to pay for them on special occasions too.
As to how you know it’s a date or not… sometimes you don’t. But if it’s in the early stages that can be nice, because if you find you don’t get on that well, it’s not so bad if you’ve just been out for a drink in a situation that could be friends but could be a date. Then you can go either way.
Bronwyn Coyne responded on 16 Mar 2011 at 2:24 pm #
Such an interesting post! And really interesting links. I have to say, dating is one huge mess for people my age, or so I feel. I don’t understand it, I’ve been “taking a break” from it recently.
I know personally it comes from not knowing what I want to do. This “emerging adult” or “preadult” stage or whatever you want to call it just puts me in a place where I basically don’t know what I want to do. The article about the dating and “non-commitment” rings true for me: I don’t know what I want, so how could I possibly commit to anything? Or expect to find what I want, when I don’t even know what that is.
Do I want kids? Do I want to have a fantastic amazing career? Do I want to get married? Do I believe in true love? I have so many questions about my own beliefs on marriage/relationships/careers/kids that I don’t think I know what I’m looking for. Without the old “rules” there are too many options, at least for someone as indecisive as myself.
Either way, watching all my friend’s relationships and dating is as interesting as ever, since they’re all pretty much a huge mix of monogamy, random dating, the girl being more open/making the first move, the boy making the first move, meeting traditionally, meeting on the internet…
Hannah responded on 16 Mar 2011 at 2:53 pm #
Thank you SO much for this! Gah, “dating games” are messy and confusing. Times have changed, and what is particularly frustrating is the blurry line between just dating or seeing someone, and being in a relationship. And, more often than not (but not ALL the time), men don’t seem to want to be committed, they just want to go one a few dates. Well, that’s what I just experienced. What I struggle with, re: paying, is that my feminist self says, “He shouldn’t always have to pay! I have money, I can pay!” but deep down, I want him to pay. And you’re right when you said that when he pays, you know it’s a date. Women think so much/overanalyze things…In my experience, I need to know if the guy wants the same thing I want…I need signs that he’s into a relationship. Or not. Sometimes, they just buzz around with no direction and you want to squash the guy like a bug. Well, that’s just my strange analysis. 😉
Jess responded on 16 Mar 2011 at 3:04 pm #
Aaaah I hate the dating game. I mostly refuse to participate, which is probably why I’m single? 😛
Barb responded on 16 Mar 2011 at 3:27 pm #
Hmmm… as I read this post and all of the responses, here’s my two cents worth too.
To pay or not to pay – this has evolved out women not wanting to FEEL obligated to a man. Growing up in the 70s & 80s, a common state of mind for a lot of men at that time was that if he paid, you had to pay in some way too. But for me this was underlying but mostly I felt that if a guy is taking me out on a date, he pays the first date and then we can talk about whether or not there’s to be a second date and how to deal with the finances.
Hanging out versus dating – with all of the people I know in the 20s, it seems that dating is a thing of the past. It’s easier to just hang out with friends, get to know a person and then if there is chemistry they may or may not choose to hook up and if they hook up for a while, then they may actually say they are dating. With hanging out, everyone pays for themselves and there is no stress, especially when you add in the stress of trying to get to know someone.
Internet dating – I think that its is a good thing, if people are honest and forthright. Communication is a big part of a relationship and if people are not communicating with their clothes on, they sure as heck aren’t going to communicate with them off.
AlisonM responded on 16 Mar 2011 at 4:40 pm #
“OK. I’m done. I’m out. It’s too confusing.”
This is how I feel about dating.
I have recently been on dates that I didn’t realise were dates at the time. I have been in relationships which it turns out didn’t actually exist. And now I’m in that limbo where you’re dating, but it’s assumed it’s going to carry on into the future indefinitely, so then you don’t know whether it’s a relationship or not, but you don’t want to ask…
It all makes me want to curl up in a ball with my teddy bear. But then I remember that no matter how complicated it makes it, my life is better with these people than without it.
I mean hell: it’s not like my female relationships are easy either… 😉
Mandy responded on 16 Mar 2011 at 6:52 pm #
I realized at a very young age (try about 10) that other people couldn’t read my mind, so if I wanted the other person to know what I was thinking, I had to speak up.
That epiphany is the foundation for all of my relationships, romantic or otherwise, and it probably accounts for my complete intolerance of lies and game-playing. I’m straight with others, and I expect the same courtesy in return.
I mean, don’t we have enough trouble communicating without throwing falsehood and deception into the mix?
The only assumption I had when I was dating (married 13 years, now) was that the person who asked the other out on the first date was the one who paid for that date, regardless of gender. If the date was dutch, it would be stated up-front, because you don’t spring that on someone when the check arrives–they may not have brought enough money, and it can result in embarrassment and bad feelings. No to mention, no second date.
Also, the other influencing factor was economic: if one of us had a job and the other didn’t, the one who was more financially able paid most of the time.
Unroast: I actually think I have pretty feet!
Mandy responded on 16 Mar 2011 at 6:55 pm #
PS: Please tell Bear that dressing up isn’t ridiculous–you both look really good in those photos!
Corny responded on 16 Mar 2011 at 6:57 pm #
Weird. I once went to a military ball with a guy in a uniform, and I wore a sleeveless fake-satin blue mermaid dress. But I’m not Jewish. Hmm.
Really, though, thanks for covering this. I am so confused by the whole world of dating. Being an anti-social geek at an all-girls high school my interactions with boys (whatever those are) are few and far between. Yet! Behold! Somehow I have managed to secure a tenuous sort of relationship with one of them! And he’s geeky and really cute! And you know how I met him?
He was a friend of a friend on facebook. I checked out his page, we had lots in common, I friended him. I spent a while not saying anything so as to avoid the awkward stalker moment (can we cover that in the online dating book?). Then we started commenting on each other’s stuff. Then it kept going. Then we had a long conversation. Then we had the even more awkward “So uh yeah I like you” conversation.
Then he asked me to a dance that, while it does not involve uniforms, is indeed a ball. Keep in mind that I’ve seen this guy in person 4 times this year. Once we made eye contact over about 20 yards, once he waved to me, once we talked for about 30 seconds at a football game (I was there for marching band, of course) and once we met up at an NHS-sponsored casual dance.
I haven’t got a frakking clue what is going on.
O Great Oracle of Kate-ness, what sayst thou?
*the purpose of this long comment/story, though still unclear, probably just involves me venting. Cheers!
mlvlnd responded on 16 Mar 2011 at 7:24 pm #
Dear Kate:
Thank you so much for directly addressing these issues … you do it with aplomb, and afford me your objective perspective … truly price-less.
The women were the society … the men married into the society by marrying members of the society … God was the society’s set of ultimate spiritual values … we had a social structure within which to create.
Duke Ellington: … “it’s good to have limits” (May; 1969; p. 320).
I am now leaving the culture into which I was born-and-educated, because it in fact is no more … my human needs (like so many others), are not being met.
In the beginning of the Book of Genesis, God created out of chaos, and unfortunately, Kate, “those who fail to learn from history are condemned to repeating it” (George Santayana, Keen, 1997, p. 26).
Again, Kate, so very much thank you.
Best always.
Brittany responded on 16 Mar 2011 at 9:26 pm #
When my now-boyfriend and I were still emailing back and forth to each other (because I lived in Alaska and he was in Oregon) I finally asked him if he would be my boyfriend and he replied, “Oh, I assumed I was!” CLASSY. ;o)
Erin responded on 17 Mar 2011 at 1:19 am #
Funny.
I got home a little late today and my mom said that she and my sister-in-law were talking about me and how I should get on eharmony. I’ve only ever had one boyfriend as a sophomore in college and haven’t dated anyone since. It kinda intimidates me, the whole dating thing.
I rather just not think about it 🙂
Lauren responded on 17 Mar 2011 at 9:57 am #
Oh my, I have been feeling this especially as of late. I am really tiring of dating. Warning: rant ahead!
I have been single for about a year now, and have had four catastrophic dating “relationships.” The first started on an internet dating website. We went on a date (where he did not pay- I was a little shocked as it was only a coffee) and then continued to date for a month (at least I thought it was dating). He even left his Super Nintendo at my house. At that point- I told him I was really into him and then he responded that he wasn’t ready for a relationship and wasn’t over his ex that broke up with him two-years prior?! This fellow only added to my belief that a lot of people on internet dating sites are a bit crazy (a fear of commitment/lack of self-confidence way). The next was a boy that my coworker set me up with. It was most definitely a date, as she had explained it to him. At first, I wasn’t sure, but after hanging out with him nearly every day of the week for two weeks, I assumed we had some chemistry. Upon my addressing our relationship, he said, “Oh? I thought we were just really good friends.” The next situation involves a missed connection post on Craigslist. I had gone to a bar, made eye contact with a cutie playing pinball and let my shyness get the best of me. I posted a missed connection and shortly he replied. And not only did he reply, I later found out that he fences at my fencing academy (what could be better). After a week of e-mailing, I accidentally ran into him at a bar, where he gave me the cold shoulder, walked out with a girl and never spoke to me again. Why e-mail me in the first place?! Lastly, I have had a long-distance friendship with someone for 6 years. We spend most of our time flirting back and forth, suggesting how wonderful a couple we would make if we lived in the same state. He suggests that he visit me, but relents when he realizes how much plane tickets are. I suggest that I, instead, visit him (as I have some money and he’s a poor grad student)… and he basically flipped out and stopped talking to me for two months (double-standard?). He’s since apologized, but I’m not really sure where we stand.
Overall, I tend to be pretty honest with my feelings. I do think that scares most guys, but I hate playing games. And I thought most men hated drama? Guess not. I want to throw in the towel and adopt some more cats. : /
Dana Udall-Weiner responded on 17 Mar 2011 at 10:09 am #
Oh, I remember The Rules well. Not that I read it, but it made a huge splash, and got my feminist nerves all in a tizzy. The whole paying thing is really hard, and it feels like there is not a sufficient answer. We want to feel treasured and special, and in some ways, this is a fair desire–something we are entitled to feel. But because our expectations are gendered, it gets dicey, and it feels like we’re saying our affection can be bought. But I have had thoughts like your Utah thoughts, Kate, so I understand the conundrum all-too-well!
MWN responded on 17 Mar 2011 at 11:41 am #
I either prefer to split the bill with the guy or pay all of it myself (if I asked him out) on the first date. If this weirds him out, then that’s a good sign there shouldn’t be a second date. Once I get to know him a little better and feel more comfortable, I’m fine with taking turns treating each other. I haven’t dated girls yet, but it’d be the same.
Links I Loved This Week ending 18th March | The Dame responded on 18 Mar 2011 at 2:01 pm #
[…] Kate at Eat The Damn Cake writes a really funny post about how Dating is confusing […]
Tina responded on 21 Mar 2011 at 10:31 am #
I just want to say I always look forward to your posts. Really. It’s almost the highlight of my day some. ( Esp at work. ) 🙂
I just ended a four year relationship with a guy who I thought I was going to spend the rest of my life with. Yeah, I was wrong. I had to write in though because for the first month or so of our relationship he always paid when we went out. I did offer on occassion too. I don’t know if living in the south has something to do with that or not. We’re kinda “old school. ” down here. Just thought I’d throw that one out.
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nea responded on 22 Jul 2011 at 11:29 am #
Very good written story. It will be useful to everyone who employess it, as well as myself. Keep doing what you are doing – looking forward to more posts.