"can you guys not talk about that right now?"
I was hanging out with two girls the other day, and at some point, I was talking with one of them about the men in our lives. And about fifteen minutes into the conversation, the other girl said, “Can you guys not talk about that right now?”
She was feeling sensitive. She had never had a boyfriend, and sometimes it was fine, and sometimes it was painful as hell.
She is not the only friend I have who has never had a serious boyfriend. And sometimes, each one of them seems to feel like she’s the only one in the world in that situation.
I was annoyed. I didn’t want to censored. I wanted to be able to talk about whatever, whenever.
“My relationship is a big part of my life,” explained the girl I’d been talking with. “I wish I could tell you about it without hurting your feelings.”
“You can, just not right now.”
“We don’t all have to have the same things to talk about our lives with each other,” I said.
And suddenly we were having this huge talk about– well, talking. About relationships.
We were telling each other in what ways we felt resentful towards each other, in what ways we felt alone. In what ways other people always misunderstood our situation. In what ways we were really proud of ourselves, but unsure of how to express it.
The girl who had been hurt by all the talk of guys was proud of being sure of what she wanted in a partner and willing to wait for it. But she was afraid that other people might think she was missing out. She was a little afraid of missing out, herself. The other girl wished she could travel, like the girl who was proud of being single, but she felt like her relationship prevented her from going places. She was also proud of her relationship, which she thought her friends disapproved of.
Suddenly I was talking about how alone I felt when I got engaged, because most of my friends are single. Because they were startled, and trying to understand, rather than just understanding. Because I was trying to prove to everyone that I was still the same person. Which obviously I was. Why wasn’t it more obvious to everyone else? I was talking about how weird it sometimes is, to be married, when marriage is still such a distant, vague concept to so many of the people I know. I also love being married. I want to brag about it. I try not to brag.
Suddenly I was thinking about how rarely this happens. How infrequent it is that someone just explains how they feel. How many times have I sat there, in a group of women, while we all politely lie? Many. The times are many.
Of course there’s: “Oh, he sounds great. He sounds like a really great guy.” That one is a staple.
But then there are all of the things that I can’t say, because they’re just a little weird. “Listen, I’m actually really tired right now. I’m not following what you’re saying.” And “I’m in a terrible mood, so I feel like I’m going to be snippy.” Or “I’m actually really jealous of you right now.” Not that everyone should be saying those things all the time. “And also, I kinda have to fart, just so you know.” It could get a little crazy.
But it might be nice to be able to say some of them. The other day, a friend was talking about something that upset me. She talked and talked and I sat and sat and I couldn’t bring myself to say anything. I kept opening my mouth, just a little, and closing it again. I was like a fish. I was about two mouth closings away from twitching. But I couldn’t work up the nerve to be honest. I was too afraid of the awkward break in the conversation, of the indignation, or the irritation, or the disappointed surprise that might follow.
But when, the other day, the girl who hadn’t had a boyfriend (but had had plenty of other important and meaningful experiences) said that she was feeling sensitive, and I was offended and indignant and irritated and disappointedly surprised, it turned into a conversation that was so much more interesting than any of the ones before it, that it was worth every bit of my reaction.
Hmm…
I’m still too scared to do it myself. I told her that, when she apologized for being “so emotional.”
“I’m a little jealous,” I said. I was. I’ve learned too well how to be polite.
(I kinda want to travel, too…To Iceland. source)
* * *
Unroast: Today I love the way I look in baggy, soft pants. Like I might bust out a hip hop move. I wish I could bust out a hip hop move…Sometimes I try, in front of the mirror.
P.S. Thank you to the ETDC reader who grew up in my new neighborhood and took me on a tour of it today! I have met some seriously awesome people through this thing.
Kate on August 25th 2011 in Uncategorized
C. responded on 25 Aug 2011 at 1:00 pm #
Hey Kate, I’ve read your blog for awhile now, but never commented before. This, though, just seems so true. It’s so hard to know how to be close to friends sometimes without freaking them out or hurting their feelings. I wish I knew the answer…
Kate responded on 25 Aug 2011 at 1:01 pm #
@C
Thanks for commenting! If you discover the answer some day, please let me know 🙂
Joy responded on 25 Aug 2011 at 1:18 pm #
I agree, Kate. Sometimes I wish I had the courage to say what I really am thinking, instead of politely biting my tongue to avoid the awkwardness, or hurting someone’s feelings, or simply a confrontation which I anticipate will make me uncomfortable. I am slightly jealous of the women who have the guts to just say what they think. Hopefully in a way that isn’t intentionally mean, just honest.
Jeremiah responded on 25 Aug 2011 at 1:24 pm #
This is a wonderful blog. Your usual combination of delightful, almost stunning insights combined with hilarious pratfalls and comic twists. You are such a delight to read. Thanks for getting involved with so many interesting people and presenting them to us with such wisdom and wit.
San D responded on 25 Aug 2011 at 1:30 pm #
There are some things in life that are so raw that can’t even be talked about, and if they could, there is nothing anyone could say to lessen the the hurt. Perhaps that is what your friend was feeling. Unable to have children, but wanting them, everytime someone thrust their baby into my arms, showed me pictures, bragged, invited me to parties, showers, christenings and graduations, my eyes were brimming, but not for their children. But you have to shoulder on, that’s what we do.
Emmi responded on 25 Aug 2011 at 1:48 pm #
I suppose this is why I gravitate towards having a small group of very close friends. My natural inclination is to be open and honest, and that’s harder to do with people you don’t know well, who don’t know you as well. These friendships took a lot to build, but are now almost effortless – my friends know that I would never deliberately say or do anything to hurt them, and they know I will always be honest with them.
I’m not in a lot of situations with friendly acquaintances, as being immunosuppressed means I try to avoid being around too many people. Interesting how my completely physical disease can affect my socialization so much – I never really thought much on it before. Thanks for giving me food for thought 🙂
Jak responded on 25 Aug 2011 at 2:49 pm #
This is why I set up a system with some of my friends to just tell me if something I’m talking about is causing problems for them.
On the flip side, I’ve been that friend who feels like they’re quietly drowning as others talk about their relationships. I’ve personally never had one, and feel like I’ll never get to have one. Some days it’s worse, and that’s always the day a friend wants to talk about their success in relationships and all I want to do is run as far as I can as fast as I can, or do other things that are far more harmful. And I’ve sat there and not said anything, because then I’m going to be the bitch who only thinks of herself when a friend is telling me good news.
I hope you can create a culture with your friends where they can ask the conversation to stop when they start to feel highly negative feelings. And I hope you can take advantage of that when the subject turns uncomfortable for you too.
Andee responded on 25 Aug 2011 at 3:40 pm #
I have to admit I feel very isolated and lonely from my friends at this point. I’m afraid if I talk about being engaged or getting married someone will think I am trying to brag or rub it in that they don’t have a relationship. I’m the first out of my group of friends to get married and it feels pretty isolated. But then I wonder if I am censoring myself too much. Maybe I should just blab on and on about my life until someone tells me to shut it.
Ashley responded on 25 Aug 2011 at 5:07 pm #
I don’t know. I have felt hurt by being broken up with and rejected by a guy and when my friends carry on about how great their new boyfriend is, it makes me feel kinda bad….but I would never dream of asking them to stop talking about it. I mean, they can talk about whatever they want and I felt it was my duty to suck it up and deal with it.
I felt I would have been expecting way too much, and even if I could ask my friend to stop gushing, what else would I have expected? the neighbor to shut off their sappy mushy love music? The roommate in the living room watching a romantic comedy? Seriously, if I can’t deal with someone gushing about love when I might feel a little rejected, then what can I deal with? Not much I would assume.
Alii Silverwing responded on 25 Aug 2011 at 6:46 pm #
This is really neat, especially ya’ll be so honest about the underlying emotions like being offended that someone is feeling sensitive. There are topics that my friends just can’t talk about with me. I am very Opinionated, so my friends have to speak up when they just don’t want to hear it. Like – I can’t talk about the movie 500 Days of Summer with one of my best guy friends.
I have a weird thing for myself that I am not being ‘polite’ when I am uncomfortable or sensitive and someone is speaking, I am actively trying to dissolve the feeling. It means I listen a little less, but I refuse to ‘change the channel’ and try to make myself understand where my resentment is coming from. The only time I allow myself to say anything is when I’m angry. A nice, “shut the hell up,” does wonders for the health of my relationships. 🙂
sophie responded on 25 Aug 2011 at 7:07 pm #
Sometimes I wish I could just say what’s in my head, but when the opportunity arises I usually get really guarded and cautious. It’s like I can’t win with myself.
However, it’s nice to know everyone else feels the same, we should be reminded of that more often.
heidi responded on 25 Aug 2011 at 7:13 pm #
I too need to work on saying what I’m feeling. I wish we all could be a little more upright and honest with each other, and take it with grace. It’s nice to know that these situations between single/committed girlfriends are pretty common. Thanks for the post.
j responded on 25 Aug 2011 at 7:22 pm #
I looooooove this post. But seriously, this is the kind of thing that makes me feel like I have known you for a long time. Because I just had a similar conversation. (Obviously, I was the one who got to live in cool places, not the one who found her long-term partner at a young age. And it was actually more about clothing sizes and liking (or not-liking) our bodies, and how much effort it takes (or not) to look the way we do, and about not taking our appearance or our health and strength for granted — but the trade-offs between having different kinds of opportunities DEFINITELY came up multiple times.)
Also: You’re welcome! Let me know if you ever need to find anything else around here.
Quin responded on 26 Aug 2011 at 4:37 am #
I have a friend who is amazingly honest. She talks about bad decisions and crazy adventures and what happens when she eats beets, and it makes for the best conversations. She can get anyone to open up about taboo topics, and I love her for it.
And yeah, I’m a little jealous.
bethany actually responded on 26 Aug 2011 at 10:41 am #
I’m a little older than you are (I’m 36) and I remember at 25 feeling like I wished more of my friends would just SPEAK THEIR MINDS with me already, so I could freely speak mine. It might encourage you to know that over the years, as I’ve gained courage and learned to really say what I am thinking and feeling—and learned to trust that my real friends will be able to take my honesty, and will repay me with honesty and trust in kind—many of my friendships have become deeper and more valuable and just plain more delightful. The friendships with women who weren’t able to handle the plain speaking, and who weren’t able to bring themselves to speak plainly to me, have more or less faded away over the years. It’s a little sad, but also enormously freeing.
Smorgasboard of Awesome #5 | Ega Jones responded on 26 Aug 2011 at 10:55 am #
[…] Eat the Damn Cake, “Can You Guys Not Talk about That Right Now?” […]
Lucy responded on 26 Aug 2011 at 1:03 pm #
There’s also such a thing as saying too much of what you’re thinking. My mother-in-law has no filter and she’s 100% honest 100% of the time. Sometimes the things she says stings.
So I think – honesty, but politely.
Herb S. responded on 26 Aug 2011 at 1:28 pm #
For me it just depends on the players involved.
More times than not when a subject is annoying to me, I feel like it’s easiest to just grin and bear it, even if in my head I’m saying ((“Holy shit!! Lemme outta here!!”)).
Sometimes, I’ll tactfully try to steer the subject elsewhere, and I’ve also been known to just leave the room, and find something else to do for awhile.
Now, this is a little off topic, but there used to be a guy in my office. Liked to talk a lot. Too much. Everyone knew that he was a chatterbox, but he was a nice guy, so mostly we put up with it. Problem is, at lunchtime. I had to pass his office to get to mine, so he knew when I returned with my lunch. Usually, by then, I’m so hungry I want to punch someone, and invariably, just as I would go to get a forkfull of my icey cold refreshing salad which I had popped in the freezer for a few minutes to make it that way……he would show up in my doorway and start in, standing in front of my desk, prattling on, usually about himself. I would put my fork down, lift my salad up and move it aside. One would think that when I move my salad away, it would signify that my lunch is being interrupted. Not here. Now, in a restaurant, or home or a party, I love conversation whilst eating. But in my office, lunch time is my time to shut everything off, eat, read, and get myself away from all that is making me nuts. So, like I said, he was a nice guy, plus he was older than I, and I liked him. I didn’t want to hurt his feelings, so I would do my best to weather the storm, as my salad got less and less icey cold and refreshing. Once in awhile, when I was just too through, and couldn’t do it, I would tell him, “Dude, your killin’ me here, I’m starving, can we talk after lunch”? That worked.
The best is right here at home. I’ll just calmly say something like “Honey….honey, please c’mon”, and she knows what I mean, usually is not upset by it, and will do the same to me if I’m talking off the wall, or about something she really doesn’t want to hear.
Kate responded on 26 Aug 2011 at 3:10 pm #
@j
That makes me want to hear the whole story!
Kate responded on 26 Aug 2011 at 3:11 pm #
@Herb S
Ha! I know exactly the situation you’re describing. And I’m always the one who stands there and listens for 45 minutes, because I can’t figure out how to get away.
j responded on 26 Aug 2011 at 6:19 pm #
That basically is the whole story.
We were having a similar conversation to the one you and I had about clothes and stuff, about knowing what looks good on you but sometimes really liking other things even if you know they’re not exactly, um, meant for your body type. Someone was jealous of someone else’s stomach, and someone else was jealous of someone’s boobs, and someone was jealous that someone else is tiny by nature even though the larger person is in better health and better shape. Somehow it then also turned into a broader conversation about this kind of jealousy, and about how you really can’t (bad pun alert) eat the damn cake and have it too … I mentioned sometimes being a bit jealous of someone else’s amazing partnership, and she admitted to wishing she got to live in as many nifty places as me, and… blah blah blah. Point is, it’s good to be reminded that we all have some amazing things going on that we shouldn’t take for granted. Yay.
shonnie responded on 26 Aug 2011 at 9:03 pm #
I love conversations like the one you had with these ladies. I wish most were this way, given it causes me enormous pain trying to figure out what we are not supposed to be talking about (just a tad aspbergers here). I know we can’t be open with everyone, because some would just trample our hearts into the dirt. I think it would be oh so lovely if people would just be open and real, even if it got dirty, but that is just me.
Haha and I grew up in the deep south where we are supposed to “know” how to lie through a conversation and what we are NOT supposed to talk about. They don’t give out handbooks on this–we are just supposed to learn it. Never made sense to me. 🙂
Sounds like a GREAT DAY! 🙂
K responded on 02 Sep 2011 at 10:04 am #
This is so, so spot on – as I’ve just written on my own (very fledgling) blog, if you believed the conversations my friends and I have 99% of the time, you’d think we had the most perfect lives imaginable. Of course, we dont. A bit more honesty would go a long way and make us all a lot happier I reckon.
Btw, I just love your blog – it keeps me entertained over here in London. Keep up the good work!